"Never say yes automatically": A Conversation with Melissa Urban
It's time for a new interview! Next up: MELISSA URBAN, Whole30 co-founder and CEO, New York Times best-selling author, and more.
Our interview series features interesting people with something to say that the world needs hearing. Let me know what you think—we’ll continue to experiment and evolve along the way. 🙏
Introducing Melissa Urban
Melissa is a force of nature in the wellness world. Known for her no-nonsense approach and radical honesty, she's helped millions of people transform their relationship with food and build healthier habits.
She’s also a lifelong learner, and someone who isn’t afraid to evolve her message as she learns. That’s one of the reasons she’s publishing The New Whole30, a greatly remixed version of her flagship creation, Whole30.
Here are a few highlights from Melissa’s bio:
For the last 13 years, I’ve helped millions of people create lasting, sustainable habits and change their lives through the Whole30; writing eight books about the program (including the #1 bestseller The Whole30). My work there has always included helping people set boundaries around food, drink, and “diet talk,” something I discovered people really struggled with, especially in social situations.
Once people found out I was really good at helping them say no to the glass of wine at happy hour or pizza at the birthday party, they started asking me for advice around their pushy mother-in-law, gossiping co-worker, and energy vampire friend. In 2022, I wrote the New York Times bestseller The Book of Boundaries, featuring more than 130 real-life scripts to set and hold boundaries in all of your relationships.
Over the years, I’ve also branched out into talking about topics that are important to me and tangential to your health commitments on social media and here in my newsletter, XO, MU. It’s part of my value system to show up exactly as I am and be willing to talk about the hard stuff first.
Naturally, we’re more interested in the person behind the impressive bio. And since this is
, I’m interested in how people think about wellbeing in general.So let’s have some questions and answers with Melissa Urban!
Qs & As with Melissa
What does mental health and wellbeing mean to you?
I consider myself very self-aware when it comes to my mental and physical health. I know my mental health and wellness are in a good place if I’m feeling connected to others (my husband, family, and friends); if I’m excited about moving my body every morning, whether it’s a walk, a run, a hike, or a workout; and if I’m approaching challenges at work or in my personal life with an attitude of, “It’s figure-out-able and I have confidence in myself, let’s take it one thing at a time.” Perhaps most important, I know my mental health and wellness are solid if my self-talk is kind, graceful, and encouraging.
People have said that I’m “relentlessly optimistic,” and that feels pretty accurate. I honestly believe that things generally do work out. You know that saying, “Everything will be okay in the end; if it’s not okay, it’s not the end?” I fully embrace that. I also think my drug addiction and recovery have helped here. I do (albeit reluctantly at times) accept the things I can’t change, and I’m good at adjusting my attitude and thoughts around those situations, because that is something I always have control over.
I also want to note that being “well” doesn’t always mean I’m in peak physical condition. I learned from my concussion that I can be struggling with my health, but still in a good place in terms of my attitude, self-talk, and “performance,” whatever that looks like on that day. This has been a hard lesson, but an invaluable one as I get older.
What is your primary or most important message?
You are so much more powerful than you give yourself credit for. I’ve been guiding and leading people through the Whole30 for almost 15 years now. The Whole30 is hard, and lots of people come into the program thinking, “I don’t know if I can do this.” But I watch them keep that promise to themselves, day after day, and step into their power, light, and self-confidence.
The Whole30 is about food, but it’s about so much more than just food. The benefits the program brings, and the sense of self-efficacy it builds, carries over into every area of their lives. They go on to change careers, go back to school, dump their toxic boyfriend, or start an exercise program. They emerge asking themselves, “What else can I do?” and then go on to do those things. All they needed was to be challenged to an appropriate degree to remind them of how strong, capable, and determined they really are.
The Whole30 didn’t change their lives—they did that themselves. Watching that happen is the best part of my job.
What’s something contrarian or highly unusual that you passionately believe?
You don’t have to subscribe to “hustle culture” to be a successful entrepreneur.
What’s difficult for you right now? What are you struggling with?
The concept of death. I don’t want to jinx it, but I’m 50 years old, and aside from my grandparents when I was younger, nobody has ever died on me. Which is weird, right, that I have yet to experience death as an adult? I’m fortunate in that capacity, but it’s also left me grossly unprepared. I’ve got a family member right now who is in the end stages of cancer, and I know he’s going to die. I’m not handling it well.
What is a simple thing (or 2-3 simple things) we can do to be better?
Cook most of your food at home. I love sharing this advice because it’s accessible (I don’t even need to specify what kinds of foods—if they need prepping and/or cooking, that’s good enough), but also highly effective for improving overall health.
Go for walks. Walking is the most underrated form of exercise (and yes, walking does count as exercise). It gets you outside, which science says is good. It moves your body, which science says is good. It’s good for creativity and mental health. There is very little a good walk won’t help.
Never say yes automatically. Always pause and ask, “Is this what I want too? Would this make me feel good too? Do I have the capacity, energy, time, or money to comfortably say yes?” This pause is your lifeline to holding healthy boundaries and protecting your peace.
Lastly, what are a few things you’d like to recommend to our community?
Cold showers (or in summer, cold plunges in lakes or rivers). I know you hate the idea, but they’re magic for mood, energy, and overall happiness. I have smugly said “I told you so” to a number of people who doubted this.
Slow cooking. I’m such a fan of our slow-cooker, year round. Dump in two pounds of chicken thighs, half a stick of butter, a bottle of buffalo sauce, and a few shakes of a seasoned salt. Five hours later, you’ve got a ton of protein cooked and ready for meal prep. This is as hard as I want to work in summer.
Samantha Irby’s Substack. I love her so much. I ran through her latest book, Quietly Hostile, twice in audio format because hearing her read it is pure gold. She shares the most random things and I don’t even watch Judge Mathis, but I will read anything this woman writes. I like it!
Audiobooks. Any old audiobook, in whatever genre you like. I only discovered the magic of audiobooks a few years ago (as an avid paper-book reader), and now I’m trying to turn everyone on to them. I listen when I run, walk, drive, or clean around the house. They make so many activities much more fun, and I love that I get double the books into my brain by listening to one while reading another.
Hiking. It’s such a big part of my life, and I love empowering other people to hike. It’s just walking! Sometimes uphill, sometimes with obstacles. You can hike as slow as you want or as short as you want and it still counts. If you’ve wanted to try hiking, this is your sign. You should! You can do it! (And I have a ton of free resources on my Substack.)
Talking to strangers. This was an experiment I did when I first moved to Salt Lake City from the East Coast. (Where we’re not rude, we just don’t want to talk to you.) I began chatting up my barista, cashier, Uber driver, waitstaff, or other people waiting in line—casually, like “how’s your day?” or “any fun plans for the weekend.” It made these everyday errands so much more fun, I noticed I always left these encounters feeling happier, and I’ve heard some really amazing stories. Highly recommended.
Big Thanks to Melissa!
Be sure to check out her Substack, Instagram, and The New Whole30. (I also really like The Book of Boundaries.)
Finally, let me know if you were able to read the interview! More of them are in the works, so be sure you’re subscribed—and stay tuned. 🙏
"Never say yes automatically" - this reminds me of Brene Brown's method of spinning her spinner ring (that she calls her boundaries ring) three times when someone asks her to do something so she has time to remind herself to "choose discomfort over resentment."
Both quotes prioritize only saying yes to the things that won't make you feel crazy or make you regret them later. You're building something. You're building for yourself a life of peace.
I love her advice: go for walks. Read somewhere that we’re built for 12 miles a day. She actually suggests this twice: take hikes. Walking is powerful. Cheryl strayed walked the pacific trail and kicked her heroin habit in the process. I would add to this something that has had a big effect on my mental health: take long drives. When I am home stewing in indecision and chewing on a problem I need resolved, no solutions come to mind. But if I leave the house and drive 45 minutes and more, the solutions find me. I have had so many aha moments while driving that it is my go to. Partly it is a much needed change of scenery but I am convinced other magic I cannot identify is going on.
I agree with the don’t say yes idea in principle but I also believe that doing hard things or kind things we don’t want to do is sometimes the best thing even for ourselves.