Eight years ago I was publicly shamed in a way that had fabulously plausible deniability.
I was sitting at a table, talking to the most high status person in the room (which isn’t something I usually pay attention to, but in retrospect I think it was part of the dynamic).
I was minding my business, talking at a normal level, not saying anything incendiary— I was absolutely within normal social parameters.
Although now that I think about it, the conversation topic was about detox, so I was positioning myself as “healthy” person.
Out of complete nowhere, someone 12 people down the table yelled out with nervous-system shredding alarm, “Melissa! Are you okay???!”
This alerted the entire table that I was doing something wrong – and what exactly was I doing? I was putting salt on my food. That’s it. That’s what I was doing.
If I hadn’t been the target, I would be impressed by the genius, Machiavellian quick-mindedness of this person, who used a very minor act— putting salt on my food – to interrupt my conversation with someone else, draw attention to me, and make it seem like I was doing something wrong.
It took me eight years to understand why it bothered me so much.
My mind just wouldn’t let it go! I certainly didn’t have any good immediate response to this “salt assault,” but I knew I felt absolutely terrible afterwards.
In thinking about it on and off for eight years, I finally understood:
This person was probably triggered by jealousy about me talking to the highest status person in the room, and/or wanted to take me down a notch because I was claiming to be healthy, and when they saw me putting salt on my food, they used the outdated idea that salt is unhealthy as a basis for attacking me – with the plausible deniability that they were simply concerned about my health.
But if you are concerned about my health, you take me aside and you talk to me about privately, you don’t scream about it across a table in front of a dozen people!
So yeah— I know all about delayed responses!
Eight years is a long time to keep thinking about one small incident, but my mind will not let shit like this go.
I’m not necessarily always the quickest, but I am definitely one of the deepest!
I am patient, persistent and tenacious.
I will keep working on something until I get to the very bottom of it. I like that about myself.
Thanks for the validation, Chris!
I decided the next time something like this happens – which hopefully it never will – I will get up and go straight to the person who does it and take them aside and talk to them about why it’s inappropriate.
That can be frustrating, also, there are always those situations that will stick with you, no matter how long ago they were. It's also unfortunate that we have people in our lives who just want to look for opportunities to take us down.
I am so sorry that happened to you. Rest assured that even though you felt targeted and uncomfortable (and even if some laughed albeit nervously), the idiot toddler adult was way out of line. Anyone pondering this after the fact would have been irked by her jealous display. What an animal. I feel your pain. But you were not the dirtbag. Ugh, people!!!!
It’s moment like this when there are so many layers to the psychological assault, I can’t get on top of them all in the moment to figure out what to do.
Slowly but surely I’m learning just how contorted / distorted/ projecting /dissociated folks are and deciding, “This environment that supports this behavior is not for me.”
Oh, I really resonate with this. I can clap back with something witty but I have learned that I can also be hurtful when I do this and say things I later regret.
I'm beginning to realize just how common it is to come up with the reply you wish you'd said, well after the conversation in question. I definitely resonate with this distinction although I wonder what ways it simplifies things, because sometimes I find myself able to quickly reply as well, with replies I'm satisfied with.
I also wonder now, how society idolizes people who are able to craft a witty sounding reply in fast conversation (even if it's completely wrong, messes up facts, misleading, etc). The speed of society makes it seem to me that mass publics tend to brush over deep thinkers.
I relate with this so much and I find it challenging when I’m in a room of very extroverted people who like to talk a lot and don’t mind interrupting folks. I’m finding that my sensitivity can be a gift and flipping the script to help me understand what I can do and feel comfortable saying.
For 83 years, I've been a reader...and I was in the same boat as you. In a discussion, I would just listen, but didn't come up with a response, until hours later or the next day. After, I got into the study of nutrition, my memory greatly improved...and over time got to the point, where I can come up with information instantly. The brain needs to be fed specific nutrients, in order for it to function well. The Standard American Diet is devoid of nutrients..and most people don't give a thought to nutrition.
Speaking of nutrition, all my doctors tell me to avoid red meat then shame me for having low iron. I’ve had one iron infusion. Expecting a second in a few months.
Have not thought much about iron...and you inspired me to check my iron-containing foods. My RDA is 8 mg daily, which is not too difficult to meet. Younger women up to approx. 50 years need 16 Mg. 4 oz of eggs contain 1.9 mg; 6 oz of steamed spinach 4.8 mg; and 16 oz of banana, which I eat daily, contain 1.67 mg. Many other fruits and vegetables contain some iron too and it all adds up. I use supplements, but none of them contain iron. I have a card, which lists all the foods that contain iron: asparagus 3.5 oz 1.05 mg; buckwheat groats 2 oz 1.00 mg; dark chocolate 1 oz. 3.3 mg iron; lentils 4.55 oz. 2.66 mg; You can check on the Internet for many other foods. I didn't eat any meat for 50 years without a health problem.
I am a deep thinker, but the kind of work I do requires that I have the answers in meetings. So I have come up with a solution for my situation: I have deep think discussions with people in the same position as I, then when we need to talk to clients, we have the quick answers ready in meetings. It is not the perfect solution, but it helps all of us to have productive meetings.
I find obstacles to deep thinking in the things we are bombarded with in social society, in accumulated beliefs, and being around others who are not deep thinkers.
Hello Chris- I am a deep thinker and I probably appear to be a person who doesn't have much to say. I also think about what I should have said much later. At last, I feel understood. Thank you for mentioning that sensitivity is a gift as I was always criticized for being a sensitive person and it was look upon as a flaw instead of an asset and I started to hate myself but now I speak up when people accuse me of being too sensitive. Being sensitive causes me a lot of pain sometimes but I'd rather be the way I am than being insensitive and cold-hearted. Thank you for sharing!
I’m kind of impressed that the younger generation is spearheading a kindness movement. In the 80s, it was all dog eat dog and zero respect for others and our differences. Sensitive folks have an artist’s soul and perspective.
This is one of the most important things to realize about Neurodiversity! It is called processing speed on the WAIS, but it has no correlation with how “smart” a person is. I worked with a brilliant student whose processing speed was in the 6th percentile, but could do multi step algebra in his head if you had the patience to wait for it. I also had a student whose processing speed was in the 99th%tile and could not make it through even simple multi step problems because they were always frustrated by how much time they took!
The old slow=dumb equation does NOT bear out in real life. The human brain is not that simple-but most people will need to slow down and pay attention to comprehend this reality!
Oh my goodness, yes. One of the reasons I am struggling with social media right now is that I tend to get embroiled in debate/discourse and then spend ages offline trying to think up the perfect response. But of course no one cares but me - it's just a waste of my energy and yet I still persist in trying.
I never thought of myself as a deep thinker. I've always thought of myself as the person who just likes to listen and take in the conversation. If I have something to contribute I will. Otherwise, I'll just listen. I will agree though, sometimes I definitely have those moments of minutes, or hours later thinking, "I should've said this or that." While in the moment, I can have a quick response, but that's the norm for me.
I went to a college full of the smartest people, and during brainstorming sessions, I'd find some people who were deep fast thinkers. I've worked at workplaces full of that sort of person too.
Why that works is immersion in thinking a certain kind of way so you take less time to understand and come up with new ideas. Having a wide base of information is highly useful here, because it helps you map new things to old things and use the old things as a template to figure out insights about the new thing.
I’ve thought about this a lot since getting dogs, because I see just how much this spectrum of behavior shows up in animals too!
I have two rescue dogs, Lucy and Gordy. Similar breeds, ages, and both have been through some doggy tough times.
Lucy is a very happy, sweet, loving girl but also quite anxious. If we’re on a walk and she sees or hears something unusual, she freezes. Our trainer says that she overthinks everything, and we often have to help her get out of her own head. She’s also very smart, but gets upset if she isn’t succeeding at something. I identify very much with Lucy.
Gordy just reacts. He loves everyone and everything. He seems to have no regard for his own life. He is just as smart and sweet as Lucy, but he just does not stop to think.
I suspect that Lucy learned some early lessons that the world is generally not safe. She needs lots of love to help her anxiety, but I wouldn’t trade her sensitive soul for anything.
Yes! Deep thinker, highly sensitive, slow communicator. I can be quick witted but I also work as hard as I can to not say something hurtful. Consequently, the quick witted often has to go. I've learned to say "Hang on, thinking" so people don't think I'm giving them the silent treatment or not listening.
The idea certainly resonates with me. I listen to other people and wonder why I don't have something to contribute only to realize later that something comes to me I could have shared. Had not thought about it as being a deep thinker. Realizing this could bring about ways to still contribute after the situation has passed.
Eight years ago I was publicly shamed in a way that had fabulously plausible deniability.
I was sitting at a table, talking to the most high status person in the room (which isn’t something I usually pay attention to, but in retrospect I think it was part of the dynamic).
I was minding my business, talking at a normal level, not saying anything incendiary— I was absolutely within normal social parameters.
Although now that I think about it, the conversation topic was about detox, so I was positioning myself as “healthy” person.
Out of complete nowhere, someone 12 people down the table yelled out with nervous-system shredding alarm, “Melissa! Are you okay???!”
This alerted the entire table that I was doing something wrong – and what exactly was I doing? I was putting salt on my food. That’s it. That’s what I was doing.
If I hadn’t been the target, I would be impressed by the genius, Machiavellian quick-mindedness of this person, who used a very minor act— putting salt on my food – to interrupt my conversation with someone else, draw attention to me, and make it seem like I was doing something wrong.
It took me eight years to understand why it bothered me so much.
My mind just wouldn’t let it go! I certainly didn’t have any good immediate response to this “salt assault,” but I knew I felt absolutely terrible afterwards.
In thinking about it on and off for eight years, I finally understood:
This person was probably triggered by jealousy about me talking to the highest status person in the room, and/or wanted to take me down a notch because I was claiming to be healthy, and when they saw me putting salt on my food, they used the outdated idea that salt is unhealthy as a basis for attacking me – with the plausible deniability that they were simply concerned about my health.
But if you are concerned about my health, you take me aside and you talk to me about privately, you don’t scream about it across a table in front of a dozen people!
So yeah— I know all about delayed responses!
Eight years is a long time to keep thinking about one small incident, but my mind will not let shit like this go.
I’m not necessarily always the quickest, but I am definitely one of the deepest!
I am patient, persistent and tenacious.
I will keep working on something until I get to the very bottom of it. I like that about myself.
Thanks for the validation, Chris!
I decided the next time something like this happens – which hopefully it never will – I will get up and go straight to the person who does it and take them aside and talk to them about why it’s inappropriate.
Toddlers scream across tables. Adults do not.
That can be frustrating, also, there are always those situations that will stick with you, no matter how long ago they were. It's also unfortunate that we have people in our lives who just want to look for opportunities to take us down.
I agree with you. Some situations have stuck with me for decades. This goes back to when I was a kid and teachers would do this to me.
I am so sorry that happened to you. Rest assured that even though you felt targeted and uncomfortable (and even if some laughed albeit nervously), the idiot toddler adult was way out of line. Anyone pondering this after the fact would have been irked by her jealous display. What an animal. I feel your pain. But you were not the dirtbag. Ugh, people!!!!
Thanks Carol!
It’s moment like this when there are so many layers to the psychological assault, I can’t get on top of them all in the moment to figure out what to do.
Slowly but surely I’m learning just how contorted / distorted/ projecting /dissociated folks are and deciding, “This environment that supports this behavior is not for me.”
I enjoyed this. I am a deep thinker. I can be a smart aleck if I think too quickly. I try not to be.
Oh, I really resonate with this. I can clap back with something witty but I have learned that I can also be hurtful when I do this and say things I later regret.
Exactly the same here.
I'm beginning to realize just how common it is to come up with the reply you wish you'd said, well after the conversation in question. I definitely resonate with this distinction although I wonder what ways it simplifies things, because sometimes I find myself able to quickly reply as well, with replies I'm satisfied with.
I also wonder now, how society idolizes people who are able to craft a witty sounding reply in fast conversation (even if it's completely wrong, messes up facts, misleading, etc). The speed of society makes it seem to me that mass publics tend to brush over deep thinkers.
I relate with this so much and I find it challenging when I’m in a room of very extroverted people who like to talk a lot and don’t mind interrupting folks. I’m finding that my sensitivity can be a gift and flipping the script to help me understand what I can do and feel comfortable saying.
For 83 years, I've been a reader...and I was in the same boat as you. In a discussion, I would just listen, but didn't come up with a response, until hours later or the next day. After, I got into the study of nutrition, my memory greatly improved...and over time got to the point, where I can come up with information instantly. The brain needs to be fed specific nutrients, in order for it to function well. The Standard American Diet is devoid of nutrients..and most people don't give a thought to nutrition.
Speaking of nutrition, all my doctors tell me to avoid red meat then shame me for having low iron. I’ve had one iron infusion. Expecting a second in a few months.
Have not thought much about iron...and you inspired me to check my iron-containing foods. My RDA is 8 mg daily, which is not too difficult to meet. Younger women up to approx. 50 years need 16 Mg. 4 oz of eggs contain 1.9 mg; 6 oz of steamed spinach 4.8 mg; and 16 oz of banana, which I eat daily, contain 1.67 mg. Many other fruits and vegetables contain some iron too and it all adds up. I use supplements, but none of them contain iron. I have a card, which lists all the foods that contain iron: asparagus 3.5 oz 1.05 mg; buckwheat groats 2 oz 1.00 mg; dark chocolate 1 oz. 3.3 mg iron; lentils 4.55 oz. 2.66 mg; You can check on the Internet for many other foods. I didn't eat any meat for 50 years without a health problem.
I am a deep thinker, but the kind of work I do requires that I have the answers in meetings. So I have come up with a solution for my situation: I have deep think discussions with people in the same position as I, then when we need to talk to clients, we have the quick answers ready in meetings. It is not the perfect solution, but it helps all of us to have productive meetings.
I find obstacles to deep thinking in the things we are bombarded with in social society, in accumulated beliefs, and being around others who are not deep thinkers.
Hello Chris- I am a deep thinker and I probably appear to be a person who doesn't have much to say. I also think about what I should have said much later. At last, I feel understood. Thank you for mentioning that sensitivity is a gift as I was always criticized for being a sensitive person and it was look upon as a flaw instead of an asset and I started to hate myself but now I speak up when people accuse me of being too sensitive. Being sensitive causes me a lot of pain sometimes but I'd rather be the way I am than being insensitive and cold-hearted. Thank you for sharing!
I’m kind of impressed that the younger generation is spearheading a kindness movement. In the 80s, it was all dog eat dog and zero respect for others and our differences. Sensitive folks have an artist’s soul and perspective.
Thank you!
This is one of the most important things to realize about Neurodiversity! It is called processing speed on the WAIS, but it has no correlation with how “smart” a person is. I worked with a brilliant student whose processing speed was in the 6th percentile, but could do multi step algebra in his head if you had the patience to wait for it. I also had a student whose processing speed was in the 99th%tile and could not make it through even simple multi step problems because they were always frustrated by how much time they took!
The old slow=dumb equation does NOT bear out in real life. The human brain is not that simple-but most people will need to slow down and pay attention to comprehend this reality!
Oh my goodness, yes. One of the reasons I am struggling with social media right now is that I tend to get embroiled in debate/discourse and then spend ages offline trying to think up the perfect response. But of course no one cares but me - it's just a waste of my energy and yet I still persist in trying.
I never thought of myself as a deep thinker. I've always thought of myself as the person who just likes to listen and take in the conversation. If I have something to contribute I will. Otherwise, I'll just listen. I will agree though, sometimes I definitely have those moments of minutes, or hours later thinking, "I should've said this or that." While in the moment, I can have a quick response, but that's the norm for me.
I went to a college full of the smartest people, and during brainstorming sessions, I'd find some people who were deep fast thinkers. I've worked at workplaces full of that sort of person too.
Why that works is immersion in thinking a certain kind of way so you take less time to understand and come up with new ideas. Having a wide base of information is highly useful here, because it helps you map new things to old things and use the old things as a template to figure out insights about the new thing.
A positive perspective on this well-known "flaw."
I’ve thought about this a lot since getting dogs, because I see just how much this spectrum of behavior shows up in animals too!
I have two rescue dogs, Lucy and Gordy. Similar breeds, ages, and both have been through some doggy tough times.
Lucy is a very happy, sweet, loving girl but also quite anxious. If we’re on a walk and she sees or hears something unusual, she freezes. Our trainer says that she overthinks everything, and we often have to help her get out of her own head. She’s also very smart, but gets upset if she isn’t succeeding at something. I identify very much with Lucy.
Gordy just reacts. He loves everyone and everything. He seems to have no regard for his own life. He is just as smart and sweet as Lucy, but he just does not stop to think.
I suspect that Lucy learned some early lessons that the world is generally not safe. She needs lots of love to help her anxiety, but I wouldn’t trade her sensitive soul for anything.
Yes! Deep thinker, highly sensitive, slow communicator. I can be quick witted but I also work as hard as I can to not say something hurtful. Consequently, the quick witted often has to go. I've learned to say "Hang on, thinking" so people don't think I'm giving them the silent treatment or not listening.
The idea certainly resonates with me. I listen to other people and wonder why I don't have something to contribute only to realize later that something comes to me I could have shared. Had not thought about it as being a deep thinker. Realizing this could bring about ways to still contribute after the situation has passed.